Thursday, August 2, 2007

2Checkout.com not checking out

So, after Medison said on the press conference that shipping wasn't included to any destination, I went directly to 2Checkout's (Medisons payment provider) to ask how this works out. When ordering the Celebrity to their order system, it clearly says that shipping is free, so I thought "this must be some kind of joke, 2CO must surely get this straight".
Let me tell you, they do not! After some discussion on their forum, it turns out that there is no problem for their suppliers to lie about things like that and that the buyers has to take the hit. Sure, you can cancel the order now if you didn't understand that you had to pay at least 1/4 extra of the price, probably more, but how would you know that? Well, if you visit 2CO's forum now after I have asked the question or read this blog, but how many of the buyers does really do that, I mean most of them must believe that the deal is genuine and don't have any reason to browse sites like this?
And if they do send something else than the supposed laptop 2CO will of course refund your money. But not the shipping.

Whats more, it still says free shipping when going trough the order process, and no one knows the actual shipping cost. But that doesn't stop 2CO to take orders, they say that them and Medison will work the shipping price issue out, but then what?

And here I though that 2CO was a trustworthy company keeping the buyers money safe.
Could there be any more loopholes for Medison to actually get hold of the money, when other things can be duped so easily at 2Checkout?

Fair deal? I really don't think so...

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

Don't blame 2co. It's a reputable company, and whoever falls for the scam should blame Medison instead. Obviously 2co can't refund shipping charges since they didn't charge them.

Tommy TruthSeeker said...

It's not only about not refunding shipping, it's tolerating Mediosn doing like this. If it says free shipping clearly like that, they shouldn't get away with charging for shipping afterwards.

Tommi said...

Haven't Medison already stated that they're going to use UPS? That's going to be at least $40 extra on shipping fees.

Anonymous said...

i just ordered one.

Have you placed an order yet Tommy?

Anonymous said...

Tommy, do you sell ads on this site?

Anonymous said...

damn u really push the 2co stuff hard on that forum!
good work!

analyzer said...

Tummy Truthseeker, you're right there's something odd about 2Checkout's behavior from the very start of this story.

As other said, it's a "reputable" company that plenty of big retailers use, but companies like PayPal would cancel business accounts with them for a lot less than what happened.

I wonder, is there really anything for them in this? I saw in their answers they tried to spin everything few times as in "we'll always be there for our partners and we're very trustworthy", as if trying to ride the free publicity they're getting, but it's starting to get a bit too much.

Why would 2CO continue taking orders, if they know they'll refund all of them in the end, and $0 for them...

Normally they wouldn't subtract their processing fees in refunds, but incur the fees on the balance of Medison. In the end, Medison will end with a negative balance, which will never be restored since Valdi will simply file for bankruptcy and drop contact with 2CO.

It must be something funky in their company policy that makes them act this way...

Anonymous said...

Why would 2CO continue taking orders, if they know they'll refund all of them in the end, and $0 for them...

dom får ju ränta på pengarna!

ZeBuLuS said...

I say we assemble a strike team of "ones with reputible computer technology skillz" to strike against Medison.

This guy is full of crap and its starting to bug me!

hackthissite.com

Anonymous said...

"Why would 2CO continue taking orders, if they know they'll refund all of them in the end, and $0 for them... "

The sole purpose of 2CO is to defend people from frauds. Assuming this is a fraud 2CO will refund thousands of people - thousands of people who thought they lost their money will remember 2CO forever.

Add to that the enormous press that will follow in which 2CO would shine (if they do what they say they do).

They haven't won anything in terms of money but they will get a great reputation and an enormous amount of free advertising.

You can't buy that much exposure or reputation. So if 2CO is true to their words they have everything to gain if this is a fraud.

And what have they lost?
A few hours of thought and answering mails. Worth the chance right?

And if this is legit they get their usual income from the deal. Oh, and a lot of exposure.

analyzer said...

"I say we assemble a strike team of "ones with reputible computer technology skillz" to strike against Medison."

Don't worry, he doesn't need people with skills refute his claims. The claims are ridiculous to a 10 year old who just learned what button starts his computer.

At this point it's wait-and-see. He won't ship laptops next week, so he'll say "they are working on it" and delays may occur.

Then few more weeks will pass, and he'll say the same. In three months when everyone has forgotten about the story, or got bored with it, he'll give up, 2CO will refund the money and he'll file for bankruptcy to avoid paying the processing fees.

That'll be the end of it.

I wish we had some more of the juicy details translated from that audio recording though ;)

Anonymous said...

I don't get it. I thought 2CO was some kind of trustee service for Medison. How can they charge shipping costs afterwards? And Medison itself can't, if it's true that they don't get their hands on the credit card details...

analyzer said...

"I don't get it. I thought 2CO was some kind of trustee service for Medison. How can they charge shipping costs afterwards? And Medison itself can't, if it's true that they don't get their hands on the credit card details..."

It's simple: the laptop comes via UPS, they knock on your door, and say "laptop for you, but pay the UPS first". You can in fact opt to not pay it, but you don't get the laptop then.

analyzer said...

Don't forget no laptop will come anyway so all of this is moot.

Anonymous said...

Um. i don't think my UPS guy is capable of slowing down long enough to take payment. Does UPS really still do COD charges?

Anonymous said...

Get REAL, and get OVER this shipping thing! If you BUY from EBay or any US on-line store (including Wal-Mart, Sears, Drugstore.com) you pay shipping! If the seller has a RETAIL store in the state you ship to, they must collect the Sales Tax too.
This deal is a PRE-ORDER FOR $150 and the final charge to YOUR credit card will include the aforementioned (additional) charges if they apply!
You are getting one GREAT DEAL (if it is real) so hush up!

Anonymous said...

Except that when I buy from Amazon, it says "and here are the shipping charges..." which is different from the Medison model, hmm?

Everyone else can tell me how much something costs before I make the order. Why can't Medison?

abandon all logic and run for the windmills said...

"You are getting one GREAT DEAL (if it is real) so hush up!"

People apparently have difficulty telling apart words and actions.

You're not getting a great deal, that requires shipping an actual $150 laptop, which they don't have.

Me telling you "give me $150 and I give you laptop or your money back" and then giving you the money back isn't a great deal.

It's just pointless

Anonymous said...

"You are getting one GREAT DEAL (if it is real) so hush up!"

Even in the unlikely event the laptops do exist, it's still not that great of a deal.

Who knows how much shipping will be, but lets say a very conservative average of $50 USD. That's $200 for an outdated laptop from a sketchy company. What if it needs support?, will it have to be shipped to Sweden for Valdi himself to fix it?

Conversely, here in the US Wal*mart was selling laptops for $300 that had better specs, and were from a reputable company (Acer)

Cheap laptops are around the corner. It's probably best to just wait a while.

abandon all logic and run for the windmills said...

"Conversely, here in the US Wal*mart was selling laptops for $300 that had better specs, and were from a reputable company (Acer)"

$300? That's indeed a great deal. I'm surprised at Acer, they're making great offers. The new $200 laptop "Eee" is also Acer's product.

But how do they do it?

Maybe they see it from a democratic point of view that everyone should be able to afford to purchase to own to use to have .. uhmm wait I lost myself.. Anyway, do something with a laptop.

Can't be anything else.

Wox said...

Here's my blog post for the Celebrity issue.
http://wox-journal.blogspot.com/2007/08/now-you-could-have-laptop-for-150.html
You guys are all welcome to comment and debate on it.

wox said...

sorry for the bad link..
http://tinyurl.com/yrpb24
is my post on the issue.
welcome to comment and debate.

greenmtn said...

I canceled my order with 2CO without any problems. Thanks for the heads-up...time to get back to the real world......

brtkrbzhnv said...

My idea for a scam:
1) Sell a product cheaply through 2CO.
2) Make buyers pay for shipping directly to you.
3) Don't ship the product.
With 200k buyers and $ 50 shipping, that's $ 10M.

Anonymous said...

The new $200 laptop "Eee" is also Acer's product.

-Nope, definately Asus, not Acer
and im gonna pick that one up (since it's fo real, and this is fo fake (and that is fo sho))

Anonymous said...

"brtkrbzhnv said...
My idea for a scam:
1) Sell a product cheaply through 2CO.
2) Make buyers pay for shipping directly to you.
3) Don't ship the product.
With 200k buyers and $ 50 shipping, that's $ 10M."

Will you pay for shipping without actual product?
Guys, all that shit is 2CO secret promo company:)

Anonymous said...

"It's simple: the laptop comes via UPS, they knock on your door, and say "laptop for you, but pay the UPS first". You can in fact opt to not pay it, but you don't get the laptop then."

As far as I know UPS does not offer COD to B2C in my country. So i really don't know how they would like to charge shipping charges at the point of sale. Furthermore: If I opt out paying it, Medison would a) not get the money from 2CO and b) have to pay the complete return shipping charges to UPS. So that does not make ANY sense to me.

Anonymous said...

On their website it sais:
"Taxes, fees, shipping and handling and any applicable restocking charges are extra, and vary."

so how can this be news to anyone that the shipping wasn't included in the $150?

Tommy TruthSeeker said...

The problem is that they don't specify the exact shipping. If it is by UPS it wouldn't suprise me that it was more than then "laptop" istself. An nothing else on Medisons website has been correct, why should the shipping part be correct? I still says "free shipping" when going trough 2CO's order procedure.

analyzer said...

--snip--

"Taxes, fees, shipping and handling and any applicable restocking charges are extra, and vary."

so how can this be news to anyone that the shipping wasn't included in the $150?"

--/snip--

There is conflicting information on their site: 2CO says shipping is free. "You forgot to read the small print" is a poor excuse. Also keep in mind not many smart people ordered this laptop, since they realize it doesn't exist.

And it's exactly less-smart people (shall we say) have difficulty tracking vague clues in the small print, when they order online.

Have you heard of the "moron-in-a-hurry" test: a moron in a hurry should be able to understand the terms of your deal. If he can't, you failed.

Anonymous said...

"That's $200 for an outdated laptop from a sketchy company. What if it needs support?, will it have to be shipped to Sweden for Valdi himself to fix it?"

If this was indeed real, that's £100 (I'm in the UK.)

£100 won't buy you a used Pentium III laptop here, and the Celeron-M isn't anywhere near that bad.

(It's still obviously a scam though, and I also eagerly await the Asus EEE which will sell for £200 here - $400.)

Kalashnikov LieAvoider said...

tommy said: "If it is by UPS it wouldn't suprise me that it was more than then "laptop" istself. "

Certainly possible. DHL/UPS services for sending something from Europe to USA are $40 for sending a simple CD in a paper slip (I used this personally).

Sending a laptop could easily be over $100.

Merchant Account said...

I don't think is a scam in so much as this is a really bad idea