Tuesday, August 28, 2007

... and then 2co spoke!

And they got new information, that only raises more questions:

"I have spent two days face to face with Valdi going over issues that are of concern. I am hopeful that those concerns will be addressed in the near future by Valdi.
2Checkout is aware that sales are now being marked as shipped in Valdi's account and will now start the verification process. As soon as we have verified that orders are being received I will revisit this post and issue an update."


I replied with the following post:
"Have you received any proofs at all that any laptops exsist except Valdi's own Clevo with scratched of serial number and Czech keyboard?Are you aware of that customers still don't know how much shipping are and that there are NO WAY for customers to contact Medison for assistance?How will you start the verification process? Have you received any tracking numbers? When are the first laptops scheduled to be delivered?
Again, the reason why we ask YOU this is because that there is NO WAY for customers to contact Medison, so please don't just say that that this will be adressed by Medison/Valdi, since there is no way of contacting them/him for a customer."

http://www.2checkout.com/community/support/topic.php?id=214&page=5&replies=126#post-1219

Let's see what happens...

48 comments:

Zebulus said...

Thanks for removing the F-Bombs.

Nice job on questioning 2CO.

My main question for them is "Why?"

Why would a reputible company take on business dealings with such a man, and WHY, WHY WHY WHY would they want to practice business where they may have to refund everyones money, thus loosing thousands of dollars in time spent alone. This makes no sense. It really makes on sense.

I have been with this Blog since the beginning and it sounds fishier now than ever.

I think 2CO knows something they are not telling.

Zebulus said...

OH, and an interesting tidbit, if you read the 2CO agreement,

https://www.2checkout.com/documentation/supplier_agreement.html

Valdi is already in breach of the 2CO user agreement. Why is his account not terminated?

the guy with the glasses said...

Zebulus, you know in 2CO's replies they seemed overly hopeful and even mentioned the "Million Dollar Homepage".

As you know this is the kid that sold $10/pixel on his homepage, ending up with a million dollar revenue by selling nothing.

Either they're trying to play us, or they played themselves. My strong suspicion is both things happened.

Anonymous said...

"I have spent two days face to face with Valdi going over issues that are of concern. [...] Again, the reason why we ask YOU this is because that there is NO WAY for customers to contact Medison"

Knowing Valdi, you realize it's perfectly possible a 2CO representative spent 2 days with him, and learned absolutely nothing of substance in the end.

Stop torturing them. You know one way or another, 2CO is here to stay, and they will refund people if they don't get their laptops.

Stress and pressure is of no use here.

revae bregae said...

I'm having some difficulty grasping the concept of flying to Sweden to talk to one of your least reliable (and not profitable so far) seller, for two days "face-to-face", and then coming back claiming it's all ok and offering nothing of interest to the waiting customers.

It's apparent that the representative didn't get a firm proof that Valdi's business is legitimate.

If it was a legitimate business, they would confirm this as soon as possible and let the orders pour in.

Instead we get vagueness.

Most puzzling, 2CO is supposed to be a big company. A big company doesn't waste their time on bs like that. Reason one: it doesn't bring them anything, and costs more than the potential benefits.

And if 2CO was supposedly on its way out trying to join the scam and grab some last money... that makes even less sense since we're not talking big money here, and they don't need to get involved in a ridiculous scheme given they already hold the money of all their other orders.

One way or another, Valdi's account would've been normally out the window weeks ago.

It's not.

There's no reason or cause for any of this, nor any attempt at explanation.

Great exercise at surreal story development if you ask me. I'm waiting for deus-ex-machina to break onto the stage any moment now, offering all visitors free Kool Aid.

Anonymous said...

"2Checkout is aware that sales are now being marked as shipped in Valdi's account and will now start the verification process."

Wait... they confirm the shipping mails are real.

What about the missing tracking information? Who ships those? If it's UPS, why is there not tracking information.

This is gonna get ugly I tell you.

Anonymous said...

With all the facts known by the public and ignored by 2CO, what laws are 2CO breaking in their continuation of taking orders?

Is it legal to sell something and take money for it, when it's something never seen and every indication is that it's non-existent?

Does it make it more legal when you promise to refund the money you have "borrowed" from people in case the product is never delivered?

Should 2CO get away with this without legal actions against them?

Is this a problem of 2CO or specific people in their organisation not doing their job? Someone at 2CO could be on vacation and that might explain why nobody takes responsibility there. In any case, whoever is responsible should step down when this obvious fraud is uncovered.

Oh, why don't 2CO even react to the obvious lie concerning the 300,000 units sold?

Peter said...

OK, let's take another look at this...

Any product sold in the US with Wifi will have to comply with FCC's requirements. FCC will conduct an approval test in order for companies to get the FCC approval. The test verifies that the product will not violate rules concerning RF interference.

Now, let's check the status of Medison's FCC approval online:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm

Oops...I don't see any Medison product?

Try to search Acer, Dell, Nokia etc.

So it looks like 2CO is not even allowed to sell the Medison Celebrity laptops in the USA at this moment!

UNLESS...

Do we actually know for sure if Clevo is behind this?

I just tried looking for Clevo on the FCC site. This is possibly interesting, Clevo has actually submitted two laptops to FCC in the last 3 months. The timing is perfect for a launch right now!
What you'll find is the lowest end model is with Celeron M processor at 1.46 GHz.
What surprised me is that Clevo has never submitted anything previously to FCC! A crazy idea could be that Clevo and Medison actually do co-operate and Clevo is in need of some very low cost distribution to put their foot into the emerging low cost laptop market.


Anyway, I could be terribly wrong in this. I certainly think if Clevo decided to use Medison to sell laptops, it would be a pretty stupid choice. Or maybe Valdi is just very good in selling himself and got Clevo convinced that he actually did open the first Apple store in Sweden etc. etc.?

You can find a lot more about that Clevo laptop including photos and user manual on: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=563539&fcc_id='U9M-M72S'

Is this the Medison Celebrity?

Tommy TruthSeeker said...

Scroll down on the blog to the post called "Recap: The computer". There you will find direct quotes from Clevo dennying any relations with Medison and that they are preparing legal action against them.

Peter said...

Hey Tommy, frankly speaking, Clevo could say whatever they want. If they don't want public awareness of this, they would reply with denial.

Seriously, Clevo should be in production of these FCC approved laptops right now and with my awareness of project timing in this industry, they might be around the milestone of shipping release of the first lot.

But generally this is my very first discovery that could lead me to think something real is actually happening. Is the scenario that Clevo just got fooled into using Medison for distribution not a possibility? Is it any different than how Medison tried to fool other "partners"?
What makes me totally wonder is that Clevo NEVER had any FCC approvals before now.

On the other hand, I agree that there are just so many many indicators that Valdi is an insane dreamer.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, Clevo should be in production of these FCC approved laptops right now

And it could also be that Valdi has a good relationship with Santa Claus! The superiour north pole logistics is hardly used this time of year.

This would explain the "Scandinavia" shipping method since we all know Santa lives in northern Scandinavia.

Peter said...

Just to make it clear: Santa Claus lives on Greenland.

Actually Clevo getting FCC approval a couple of months ago is a clear evidence that Clevo is going to ship these laptops to the USA (believe me, I've done projects myself involving FCC).

That means as an almost 100% fact that Clevo will ship these laptops to the USA.

So who will distribute Clevo in the USA - possibly within the next weeks?

Anonymous said...

I got my Medison Celebrity today! It was delivered by an elf ariving in sledge pulled by reindeer. It seems that shipping is actually free as long as you are registered as a good kid in the Santa Claus database.

Peter said...

OK, it's not that I didn't have my moments where I felt everything was just ridiculous, but take a look at these photos of the new Clevo laptop:

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=792838&native_or_pdf=pdf

Clevo don't get FCC approval for no reason!!! Again, where will I be able to buy one of these laptops?

If Medison is honest about selling laptops in the USA, this is the one!

However, I personally can't imagine Clevo will rely on Medison for US distribution.

Anonymous said...

"If Medison is honest about selling laptops in the USA, this is the one!"

- It could be that they had real discussions and that Mesdison then made the FCC registration. However, I do not think I took too many meetings before Clevo got a revised picture of Valdi…

So, the situation could be like this:
1. Valdi and some from Clevo have some meeting where they discuss some kind of cooperation.
2. Valdi gets his demo computer.
3. Clevo do some checking on Medison and Valdi and says goodby to Valid.
4. Valdi however still believes in this and goes to IDG to show his 400 USD computer.
5. Valdi tries to convince Clevo to trust him, showing all the publicity that he got in Sweden - but Clevo still say, no.
6. Valdi choose to use 2CO and starts the Medisoncelebrity hompage while decreasing the price to 150 USD (in his head there are huge margins on hardware and the competition is really using 50% of their budget for commercials).
7. Valdi is still trying to convince Clevo that this is a nice deal and that he has 300.000 orders that they can deliver whenever they want…

But, I probably made a big mistake when I tried to look at this from a logical view…

Anonymous said...

Edit:

"If CLEVO is honest about selling laptops in the USA, this is the one!"

- It could be that they (CLEVO) had real discussions and that Mesdison .... etc etc

Barockt said...

"""I got my Medison Celebrity today! It was delivered by an elf ariving in sledge pulled by reindeer. It seems that shipping is actually free as long as you are registered as a good kid in the Santa Claus database."""

Hey me too, though i think i have to send it back, Rudolf have drooled all over the Laptop which unfortunately caused the stickers showing who produced it to fall off.

Do i return it to Santa Claus or Copacabana?

Anonymous said...

So who will distribute Clevo in the USA - possibly within the next weeks?

The only thing we know is that it is , by his own admission, not Valdi Ivancic and Medison.

Clevo would be wise to use a real distributor with, you know, stores and staff.

And by the way, Clevo does not need Medisons two secret Brazilian assembly plants either.

Anonymous said...

Hi everyone!
Why don't you try calling Valdi att his cell-phone?
Even if he is not answering himself you can always leave a message and ask him to call back.

(In Sweden) 076-338 4142
(Outside of Sweden) +46-76-338 4142

This is the number he left during the press conference in Sweden. He then promised that he would not vanish or make himself impossible to reach.

Anonymous said...

Why Clevo would sign away their US distribution rights to a company in the UK, managed by a Swedish immigrant from Croatia who is living with his family in Brazil, is totally beyond my comprehension.

But perhaps it was Valdi's prosperous future as Prime Minister that made it possible. Who wouldn't want to buy their computer from a politician.

Anonymous said...

"CLEVO is the professional notebook computer manufacturer for distributors, and is also one of the world's most preferred OEM/ODM partners. We market our products in more than 50 countries, and have established service centers in the USA , Germany , Britain , China , and Taiwan. "

"By adhering to the CLEVO core philosophy of Qu@liquiC (Quality, Quick), CLEVO can meet the delivery schedule in order to serve both smaller start-up ventures, and international companies that require a variety of products in large quantities."

Anonymous said...

I think the Medison computer was designed by Valdi and manufactured by Apple as an act of gratitude towards Valdi for design the iMac colors and opening an Apple Store!

Anonymous said...

Sounds like the first shipment will soon arive at the end customers. Or not. We shall see. :-)

"Any product sold in the US with Wifi will have to comply with FCC's requirements."

I doubt that anyone selling laptops in Sweden must take care that his product complies with US FCC requirements. You can buy many things on the Net that aren't certified in your country. For example, I could buy a radio frequency scanner over the Net and even have it at home, but using it would be illegal (where I live, at least as far as I know).

Anonymous said...

I doubt that anyone selling laptops in Sweden

Valdi Ivancic lives in Brazil, the Medison Europe company is registered in the UK and according to Ivancic the assembly plants are in Brazil... so who's selling laptops in Sweden?

Tommy TruthSeeker said...

Can we just drop this discussion about the data found at FCC? The computer there is a MobiNote M72S that has NOTHING in common with the M540 that the computer on medison's site are based on. Oh, maybe the CPU-speed, but nothing else. The M72S is a expensive ultra-portable computer and has nothing to do with this.

Anonymous said...

While we're at it, drop the Santa sarcasm, and sarcasm in general. It's boring me.

Facts are much more interesting, but even if there are no facts, silcence is less boring than sarcasm.

Twice so Santa sarcasm, and aliens sarcasm.

Anonymous said...

Valdi Ivancic lives in Brazil, the Medison Europe company is registered in the UK and according to Ivancic the assembly plants are in Brazil... so who's selling laptops in Sweden?

Good point.

Anyway, what I intended to convey is that US FCC regulations do not apply in this case. Correct me if I'm wrong. I live in Germany, where importers in such a case put a disclaimer on their web page stating that the product is not certified and may not be operated here. However, that's German companies selling imported, uncertified goods in Germany.

I doubt that Medison has to certify their product anywhere else than where they are based -- which legally speaking is UK, I suppose. But if you know better, let us know.

Anonymous said...

"Valdi Ivancic lives in Brazil, the Medison Europe company is registered in the UK and according to Ivancic the assembly plants are in Brazil... so who's selling laptops in Sweden?"

Does anyone know what happened to Valdi´s eventually tourism-job in Blekinge...?! He maybe is on his way back to Sweden...?

Zebulus said...

I think it shouldnt be legal for 2CO to accept and hold money that they know will be more than likely refunded.


I mean, what type of business is that. What if Dell said,

BUY OUR COMPUTERS! We cant guarantee that you will ever get a computer, but if you dont, we will refund you.

??? Do you see what i am saying?

Plus, they could be making money off of that money with the interest, depending on how long it sits in their bank accounts.

Anonymous said...

Yes, except the money is never released to 2co. It's only a hold on the funds, that will be released after a period of time, unless the transaction is completed.

Zebulus said...

Check it out!

http://tinyurl.com/2n9p3g

2CO resides state-side! So they have to submit to US business regulations, which they have violated.

Lets take them down!

Anonymous said...

Zebulus,

What is the violation specifically?

Anonymous said...

"Yes, except the money is never released to 2co. It's only a hold on the funds, that will be released after a period of time, unless the transaction is completed."

But whe funds are on hold, some bank somewhere still holds them. So it's Medison working together with 2CO to benefit the banks of thousands of random buyers!

Damn it, I knew it this would be huge

Anonymous said...

I suppose, if you are dumb enough to use a bank card.

With a credit card, all it does is deduct money from your available credit, which actually prevents you from spending more money, therefore actually saving you money.

Anonymous said...

Zebulus, stop posting random link to the ToS and various regulations and state your claim specifically.

You're spreading just FUD right now. And it's ridiculous this project needs manufactured FUD with all the problems around it.

Anonymous said...

"I suppose, if you are dumb enough to use a bank card.

With a credit card, all it does is deduct money from your available credit, which actually prevents you from spending more money, therefore actually saving you money."

That's the worst explanation of a credit vs debit card I've ever seen.

Anonymous said...

I was responding to this statement: "But whe funds are on hold, some bank somewhere still holds them. So it's Medison working together with 2CO to benefit the banks of thousands of random buyers!"

I didn't realize I needed to do a comprehensive explanation for credit vs debit cards...

cclo said...

To Peter:

Clevo is an ODM (original design manufacture). They sell most of their products to other laptop companies but not to end users. I guess it's the responsibility of those companies (which re-brand and sell clevo's laptops) to get FCC's approvals. Check Sager for example.

Peter said...

cclo, Yes, exactly, Clevo is an ODM supplier and it's their first time to ON THEIR OWN seek FCC approval.
Tommy, I agree the M72S on FCC's site is not exactly the same computer. On the other hand, the one shown on Medison's web site is already an obsolete design. The screen size of this new one is however smaller and that usually means lower screen cost, less plastic, cheaper battery (less capacity needed) etc. Yes, Sony and some other brands have indeed charged premium for very feature rich compact laptops, but don't get fooled by that.

Again, this is simply the FIRST time Clevo goes directly to FCC for getting anything approved and TIMING is around NOW for a launch.

Coincidence? Maybe...

Valdi is an insane dreamer, but one thing that occurs to me is that everything wouldn't make sense if he didn't actually have someone behind the curtain he was trying to make a deal with.

If Valdi was just into a pure scam he wouldn't go public and he also wouldn't get a laptop from Clevo for evaluation (that he apparently forgot to pay for).

So the M72S project might have something to do with it. It will be interesting to see where and how much the lowest end 1.46GHz 256MB Ram model will be sold for.

Personally I think US$150 is still unrealistically low and I don't believe Medison actually have an agreement in place with any vendor.

On the other hand, the Unitedkeys concept is not completely insane and I'm pretty darn sure the guy must have met with several vendors including laptop vendors.

Anybody knows anything about when that new Clevo laptop will be in retail, where it's available and for how much?

Anonymous said...

Medison Celebrity is an anagram for

Incredible, Yes Tom

Anonymous said...

Valdi is an insane dreamer, but one thing that occurs to me is that everything wouldn't make sense if he didn't actually have someone behind the curtain he was trying to make a deal with.

It is in of course possible that Valdi has approached Clevo and asked them to supply their newest laptop for $75 so he can sell it for $150. That still doesn't make it possible.

Since Valdi has sent out shipping notices, we should be days away from knowing what was shipped. Bricks or Clevos or nothing at all.

Tommy TruthSeeker said...

Peter:

Valdi him self said on their press conference that the computer that the customers will receive is the exact same model as the one specified on medison's site and that they showed on the press conference.
And no, that computer is NOT cheaper to build. One of Clevo's partners, Sager Notebooks, seems to sell it for US$699.
Clevo's page:
http://www.clevo.com.tw/products/M72S.asp
Sager's page:
http://www.sagernotebook.com/product_customed.php?pid=829

Peter said...

Tommy, I absolutely agree that US$150 is totally ridiculous for a laptop with the specs from Medison's web site.

However, if you read the specs on the FCC web site in the user manual carefully, you can see it can be delivered with lower specs than the Sager one. Sager has:

1. Vista included.
2. Higher clock speed (1.73GHz)
3. 512MB RAM.
4. Camera included.
5. More expensive coating.

But US$150...that's still a joke of course.

But again, Clevo seeking FCC approval directly is something they never did before in their company's history.

Tommy TruthSeeker said...

My guess on that is that they have or will have a partnership with a cellphone operator to bundle the computer with services, since this computer has an option for internal 3.5G communication.
And it doedn't matter how low the specifications can go, it's the design of the system and systemboard itself that is expensive on such a model.

Peter said...

Tommy, yes but it's not uncommon to do one board layout and simply exclude components not needed for a low cost model.

Still...the mystery what Clevo is up to with going solo to FCC and the launch timing that coincides with Medison's announced launch date makes me think that this is in fact the very laptop Valdi was hoping to sell.

Clevo might in various ways trying to get their products to the market at lowest possible cost. By having the approvals they are allowed to sell direct to customers. Valdi is just one of the less elegant attempts...perhaps.

Tommy TruthSeeker said...

Except that the whole story with the Clevo-computer started the summer of 2006 and in a completely other way.

Peter said...

Tommy, what did Clevo do in 2006?

Clevo got their only ever FCC approvals a couple of months ago.

It appears like Sager is relying on those approvals.

Clevo is the only known potential ODM supplier for Medison.

Most likely Clevo don't want to waste time with customers who can't commit to a serious quantity and Valdi tried to establish it by doing this silly stunt act online. The Apple store story is probably also part of his ridiculous attempts in trying to be someone serious.

Valdi was assuming Clevo would provide laptops but his general inability to finish whatever he starts made Clevo walk away.

And the reason why Valdi showed an old Clevo is that Clevo didn't allow him to go public with a product not released and he chose to show an older product. Possibly he used photos of his only sample for the web site.

It's extremely obvious that there has not been much calculation behind setting the price at US$150. If Valdi could really deliver, he would possibly become the world's biggest supplier of laptops in no time, if he could sell it even at twice the price.

Anonymous said...

become the world's biggest supplier of laptops in no time

Becoming the worlds biggest anything is harder than you seem to think.

If this is indeed what Valdi is dreaming about, it will remain just that: a dream.

Successful businessmen have goals, not dreams.